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18 July 2009 @ 09:42 pm
advice (non BT but doggie related)  

(And if anyone finds this too far off -topic please advise with another forum that would be appropriate)

Anyone have experience with co-ownership?   I've got a line on a pupper with terms that she be bred twice.   Current owner/breeder wants the first litter and half the second.

I'm not 100% sure it would be a co-ownership situation as I've not spoken to her myself. My mother saw the listing and called on my behalf.    But i've heard horror stories, but mostly from the secondary owner registring the dog alone and disregarding contracts.  

So has anyone done this, as either the original breeder or the secondary owner?   I'm looking for whatever imput anyone may have.

Any advice on things i should ask of her.   Beyond the normal, are you willing to take her back if i can't keep her.   Obviously how an odd numbered litter would be split.   And of course if this is a co-ownership does full ownership revert to me once the breeding obligations are met.   

If the mating produces no pups? or living no pups?  or if somewhere along the line a pup or the bitch come back with a negative health certification.  Or who's responsible if something goes wrong with birthing (emergency C-section and the dr things it best to spay her)

Given a choice I would spay a dog i was buying outright.   But I'm willing to do this.  I just hope when push comes to shove she is willing to let me have the pupper.   I fit her happy criteria, i own my home (or will in a few months just waiting for closing) and i have a fenced yard.  I'm local to her.  I can get a referral from Sky King's Drs that his care was always taken care of.  

Tiffanyiftherainstops on July 19th, 2009 02:05 am (UTC)
Do you mind if I ask why you are buying under those conditions? Are you buying the dog because you want this specific dog, or do you want to breed her for the money/future puppies?

I've never heard of this kind of an arrangement before and it all sounds very awful.

Edited at 2009-07-19 03:03 am (UTC)
Ravenvoiceravenvoice on July 19th, 2009 07:58 am (UTC)
I would be buying the dog at a tremendous discount. I certainly woudln't be breeding for the money. Anyone who is in it for the money is delusional as breeding is not a cheap endevour well at least it shouldn't be.
Tiffanyiftherainstops on July 19th, 2009 03:15 pm (UTC)
Have you looked into rescuing/adoption? Dogs go through a lot when they are bred, and usually they are bred fairly close back to back. It's not easy on them.

You could try spo_prevention to see if anyone there has done something like this. They're a fairly active group
jeninjenius on July 19th, 2009 03:15 am (UTC)
Contrary to the above comments, co-ownership with breeding rights is actually quite common with what are called "show quality/show prospect" puppies which I am assuming you are buying from a responsible breeder of BTs.

My 9mo Field Spaniel is co-owned by me and her breeder. She was considered "pick of the litter" by Pat Hastings (a very well-known AKC judge who evaluates litters for conformation/performance prospects) and assuming she passes her health clearances and finishes her conformation Championship and/or achieves other performance titles she will be bred at least once to a male of her breeder's choosing. After she finishes her Championship and is bred full ownership is mine.

If she fails her health clearances, has a genetic issue that prevents her from being bred, or she does not pan out as a Show dog she will be spayed and full ownership is mine.
kisstherain4mekisstherain4me on July 20th, 2009 09:36 am (UTC)
My beloved Beasties was a co-ownership, but I knew the breeder for many years and trusted him. The contract was specific, one litter, breeder pays for the stud, 3 or more live puppies; once those conditions were met, she was all mine! But I agree that breeding is awful on the dog. Beasties almost killed the first stud and it didn't take, and when she started labour, she got awful hives.

The breeder should pick the stud, pay for the stud, take care of the breeding. You will keep the dog during her "confinement" then a week or so before birth, the dog is returned to the breeder, for a scheduled c-section that the breeder pays for. All related breeding and vet costs should be paid for by the breeder.
bostonsnboxers on July 25th, 2009 04:17 pm (UTC)
I used to breed and show pedigreed cats (Oriental Shorthair) back in the day, and co-ownership was pretty common with breeders that wanted to keep their catteries small. It was usually only done with an exceptional quality animal when there was simply no way to keep them on the premises. Often the first owner (breeder) would get pick of the litters, or if it was a show animal, often the cost of campaigning the animal was shared, along with time traveling (one owner would show one week, the other the next).
If your purpose in this is to acquire a pet, I advise against it. If however, you'd like to 'get your feet wet' and start breeding or showing without carrying the full responsibility, it might be a good way to go IF the breeder is a breeder of champions and is reputable.

The contract can read anything, so be very careful to be sure you agree with everything in it, and that you cover every possible scenario and agree with it's terms. As the breeder and 'first' owner, she/he will have the decision over anything that's not spelled out until which time they release the dog to you permanently (make sure THOSE terms are spelled out very clearly), and if you don't abide by his/her wishes, they can and probably will take the dog back with the full legal right to do so. Basically you are leasing the dog!

Be careful, and good luck ;)
Keep us updated on how it goes!

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